Curse

I pwnd U · Nov 11, 2005, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whosaidwhatnow

Yeah, great! Let's make the monsters as smart as any human, albeit with twice the HP, hitting for twice the amount of damage, level 28, etc., and swarms three times the size of any PvP team you'll ever come up against. Thats a good idea, because I don't ever want to get past the first three swarms in FoW again.

If you want smart opponents, play PvP.

completely aggreeing w/ that

I pwnd U · Nov 11, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

pve guys should not be smarter then players tahts what the tombs and pvp arenas are for. ya enemies have no strategy but like whosaidwhatnow said they are lvl 28 double hp and dmg dealt and 3 times the mob size as teams so it makes it unfair to players. and especialy unfair to nukers

IncrediStud · Nov 11, 2005, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whosaidwhatnow

If you want smart opponents, play PvP.

Yeah, but that's just the problem. Those who play PVP are people, and lots of people that play this game are inherently douche bags. ANET can't do a thing to fix that, can they. If they could take out all the immature freak-shows that ruin PVP for most of us who dont like it, I wouldn't be so up-in-arms with this patch. But by making this fix, they force the rest of us who like to play with a few buddies or by ourselves, to play with those otherwise pretentious asswipes who think they are better than everyone. No thanks. I liked it just the way it was. They call it a solo monk for a reason, or a guild for a reason. You can choose who you want to do it with, if with anyone.

ShinJin Kahn · Nov 11, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

I would change to water or earth for PvE if I could actually buy a sup rune.

I'm a little annoyed about the changes, i'll try and get over it, but it doesn't look liky when Anet make it as hard as possible (sort the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing traders out).

nimloth32 · Nov 11, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

so this update do more good or harm????

Samueldg · Nov 11, 2005, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

The reaction of so many to this patch can be summed up in so few words...

CHANGE!?!@??!??@!!! OMFG THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!! OMFG!!!

Good Lord, ADAPT. Changes happen in every game, and no change is going to please everyone. Regardless of the changes, theres very little that the devs can actually change that the players have NO ability to cope with by changing tactics... Yes I know, for those poor picked on farmers it means they may need to do something other than what they've been doing over and over and over... the sky is falling....

your missing the point...

many of us ENJOY farming ....

coming home from work and turning on the comp to farm a bit and marvel at what drops ( even though we ALL KNOW collectors and crafters make perfect stat weapons)or gather enough money to buy another 5 black dyes and mix other colors into them to change the look of a char we played thorugh the game four months ago... or find that elusive max damage tribal axe that we seem to only find in blue or white with crappy mods or even better a sickle!!!..

your arguement would be akin to me setting back complaining about FOTM builds in tombs... I dont mess with pvp, I dont like the additudes I find there. ( If I wanted to deal with trash talking jerks I would work later

, NOT saying ALL are but theres enough to effect PVP all too often.. so I stick with what I enjoy..farming areas and occasionally hitting different areas to see if I can luck out and farm with my lil 55hp build monk through north snake dance.. one heritic and im toast

I dont gloat when they nerf a build in tombs, I dont complain and I dont talk crap to pvpers.. I do however understand the frustration of those who used those builds, tweeked them, and made them work for themselves... dont prove me right by setting back talking crap like I EXPECT you to .....

I dont have hours to set about working on a new build to farm the same area I did for the last 2 months... nor am I overtly interested in learning what every skill does in every class... for instance Ive no love for necros, I just dont have the pateince to play the build properly I can respect those that do ( got a guy in guild thats by and far the best minion master ive ever seen, reminds me of playing with d2 summoners) I do however like having four builds set up for farm different places... some with 3+ sets of armor for different jobs (ranger=beastmaster set of armor with proper runes= trapper set of armor with runes=marksman armor w runes) I dont want to have to REINVENT the wheel to enjoy a game I was ALREADY enjoying...

your sarcasm isnt needed... either here or in game after a pvp match...

Ailyrr Merlena · Nov 11, 2005, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldslammer

i guess running is much easier for people through lonars pass->droknars forge, just chuck on balthazars aura and watch the mobs scatter lol, "clear the way i got AOE on me" haha

For an even cheaper energy cost, you can use symbol of wrath. Yep, same effect. And this had me laughing pretty hard considering how they all ran when I cast it.

I went out in a low-level area to work on a Grasping Earth/Ice Prison/Ice Spike/Mind Freeze build. Nope, that didn't work either, they all ran away.

I don't care for PvP, other than GvG battles. I don't care for the attitudes of the "hard-core" Pvp'rs, and their spamming of their rank. I personally don't care if you have a deer head, dragon, or the goddess Athena. I've gone to the Tombs, and I find the insults as to what skills I use, that I'm not using the FOTM, rather immature, and not very fun. So no, I don't PvP. And yes, I have rank-I'm just not saying what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Not saying teamwork wasn't part of the game (my words said that, it was a poor choice of words on my part.)

Ever see the groups for 1 tank, 1 monk, 2 nukers? Now that group will need to bring a Snare..r or something. It opens up party options, and encourages NEW builds in PvE. I failed immensely in stating that in my original post, but that is my point. Now there will be (hopefully) new strategies emerging in PvE. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

Have you been to the War Camp lately? Everyone is now advertising for two water ele or 1 water/1 earth, and the price of that lame Fleshcleaver? Well, it's sky-rocketed to about the price of Rago's Staff. So no, not much has really changed. No one is asking for my mesmer or ranger (unless I'm willing to change to a me/e and echo one of the slowing spells).

As for those going on and on about how ele's are whining about not being able to use firestorm? My over 2million xp FIRE ele hasn't used firestorm since I was able to get a different spell. I was overjoyed at Searing Heat no longer causing exhaustion. *shudders* And mind burn, yummy. Yes, I still have Meteor Shower on my skill bar, but it was for the disruption, not the damage. Knocking down the 3-monk groups in FoW was hard enough WITH Meteor Shower. Unfortunately, my FIRE ele has now been relegated to the same level as Orion....not a pleasant thought.

I know there are plenty out there that are just over-joyed at this update. I'm disappointed. Disappointed that when I first started my FIRE ele (back at the public release), I was under the impression that that was what my FIRE ele was for. I've worked out several different builds with her, incorporating all fire, fire/maelstrom, fire/air, and fire/earth. I LIKE watching things go up in fire. I'm a pyro at heart. And it wasn't about a cookie-cutter build, it was about the FIRE.

Scrapper8o · Nov 11, 2005, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by living too die

I havent been on gw today yet, and this thread was the first ive heard of this update. And man.. I just browsed over about half of the replies and all I have to say is.. all you whiners need to do is just suck it up. " Aw man I cant do my repetitive ass nuking any more.." boo hoo... now some people might actually have to create an original build.. too bad.. I know you didnt want to hear that. Now I cant comment yet about the update b/c i havent played it yet. From the sounds of it though, PvE should be very strategic now(which is a good thing). One last thing.. it sounds like the ever annoying 5 amn farm group in sorrows furnace is shot!! Now there may be some decent PUGs for Final Assault.. if all the farmers havent forgotten how to quest that is..

Gotta love people like this. "I havent played yet... but your all wrong for thinking like you do". The simple letter change between PvP and PvE is not just a simple letter... it is a gamestyle change. I couldnt agree more with the person who stated that he does not want to play with anyone else if he does not want to. I dont like pugs because there is always the one or two players that are "uber leet". I dont like pvp because of the time involved Thinking. Thats right... I want a mindless video game to play. I get payed to think all day at work. I dont want to think about a game. I want to come home and "Tank, Nuke and repeat"... not plan my every attack with 7 other people.

Shaun · Nov 11, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

I dont mind this,but as long as they increase the drops and such in nerfed places like griffon runs/uw. Even though they maybe harder to kill, they should drop better.

Amused Observer · Nov 11, 2005, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

OMG running is so easy now...

They even run away from Ignite Arrows. ^^;; Stupid AI FTL!!! I seriously dont see the improved AI, all I see are more holes to exploit.

bingo!

internetguy · Nov 11, 2005, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rosette

Heh, best blow Anet has made yet against farming.
/Thumbsup

I think it should be: best blow Anet yet put against their own business

I do not farm, and my nuker is not working, and it effect every other professions too (e.g. Ranger's traps, Mesmer's Chaos Storm etc), it is a complete screw up. The game has lots of real bugs need to be fixed, but seems nerfing is Anet's priority. I do not get it at all.

In the other issue, AI for monsters should not be increased, because in basic RPG concept; there are lots monsters, but only limited players on map, the only chance that the players have is higher intelligent. (my experience in PRG AI design). Anet can nerf skills to seek the balance the game, but as game developer, should not work against the fundamental concept, otherwise, it will drive players away.

Good luck to Anet for this update. You will see what happen in your second chapter.

Amused Observer · Nov 11, 2005, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuixotesGhost

Orion is no longer your friend.

Only him though, I think.

unienaule · Nov 11, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

I just remember all the solo monks standing in ToA after the Prot Bond nerf saying "oh man, healing is gonna cost people now," doing lots of chest thumping about how everyone would quit GW if they didnt reverse it. *looks around* Looks like you're all still here. The update isn't bad. I didn't redesign my build, and I went out and got Drago's Flat Bow today. It makes PvE much more interesting, not impossible.

GW just became my favorite game because you can no longer easily steamroll all the mobs with a couple nukers.

strcpy · Nov 11, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Batou of Nine

The Good First::

Forces people to stop relying on the same old builds.
Forces people to learn more about the dynamics of GW gameplay.
Enforces a stronger idea of community through lowered amounts of mindless killing (i.e. Nuking, etc), which in turn forces parties to talk more, strategize(sp?), and plan.
Increase in Henchmen AI is never a bad thing!

Sorta agree. The problem, as I see, it basically a form of elitism. People say it seperates the good form the bad - do you really think that doing this is good for this game (that's not aimed at you Batou, but to those who said this). Especially given that GW's model depends on those noobs purchasing the game. Most out there are the noobs and getting rid of them will kill a game. Beware that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Quote:

The Bad::

Succesfully eliminates efficient farming, causing huge detriments to the economy.
Due to decrease in farming efficiency, an increase in cost for ALL items from rare materials to rare items will occur.
The whole game has now shifting into the hands of GW veterans, with heavy change in AI, AND ecnomy, new players will easily become discouraged from playing.
Due to heavy increase in all economy trades/sales, new players will have no way of participating in the GW trade community due to incredibly high starting costs.
Many veteran/bored players, who now play only to farm, no longer have motivation to play, and therefore GW loses more player base.
Summation:: Those specific two update changes are going to hurt the GW community through loss of new player base and loss of veteran player base. It also will BADLY change the trade community in the near future as farmers realize how much their efficiency has dropped.

As another poster said, the new players will know no different. Though I think this has made the game frustrating in PvE for new players, but I do not know how much. Other than that - I pretty much agree.

The real issue, in my mind, is that whole lines of spells and builds are pretty much dead. For the most part I've felt that the past changes were OK, didn't really like some, liked some others. But over all not really much either way (and to note - I do not play PvP and refuse to have an opinion on that unless I know more). "Different" doesn't mean bad, it is just different. However, this change is "dead" or "useless".

One of the main is that in the past the only things that were made useless were obvious exploits and the updates were pretty much targetted fairly well at just them, plus those exploits were more knowlegable gamers - not the casual gamer. Regular builds - one that were obviously intended - were still quite viable. Sure, some things may have slight changes, but it was still valid. Unless someone comes up with something better this stops entire builds that are *not* exploits. No one should be happy that fire eles are pretty much dead - better that they would be removed instead of made worthless. This is true from veterans (smart and dumb ones) and newbies - imagine really being turned on by the idea of a fire ele (my first char, at that point I didn't know anything about the game, only the high level description) only to find out that most of your skills are worthless? Just think how horrid the mage henchman AI is now with AoE spells. Before I sometimes took him, never will now. Not to mention when the greifers figure out they can be VERY disruptive with a few well placed AoE spells (especially with respect to aggro) I bet that a lot of the "This is great" people will turn.

Guild wars has been very well balanced in the past. No matter the build I've found a way to make it work well in a few hours (PvE only, I do not like PvP). Now there are entire classes that I may be able to make work with a lot of time invested - but I didn't purchase GW as a "I have to work at it" game, plus it was advertised and delivered as such. For a casual gamer this is a death knell - go play another game.

*sigh* my ranger will now most likely become my main player again (does ignite arrows count as AOE?). I was seriously enjoying my smiting monk, it was a different style character than I am used to playing in RPG's. Unless either some great new tactic is found or this is rescinded she is dead. The only thing that makes this "bad" instead of "Horrid" is that GW allows rebuilds.

Whosaidwhatnow · Nov 11, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

The reaction of so many to this patch can be summed up in so few words...

CHANGE!?!@??!??@!!! OMFG THE SKY IS FALLING!!! THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!! OMFG!!!

Good Lord, ADAPT. Changes happen in every game, and no change is going to please everyone. Regardless of the changes, theres very little that the devs can actually change that the players have NO ability to cope with by changing tactics... Yes I know, for those poor picked on farmers it means they may need to do something other than what they've been doing over and over and over... the sky is falling....

Adapt? I DID adapt pal. Making an echo nuker from the ground up because that was a good PvE class, that was adapting. Spending 100+ hours playing him, building him up just so I could finally get into good PvE groups that my tank couldn't, that was adapting. Being forced to change my entire game, and spend a bunch of money (which will now be twice as hard to come across) rebuilding every time the whiners get their way, thats not adapting, thats ridiculous. It's coddling. Its ANet saying "there there you poor lil mesmers... there there you PvE rangers... we'll make the most damaging class in the game suck, just so you can stop whining about your character class being 'useless'. Don't bother adapting to the game and making characters that fit their purpose, just whine to us until we change it for you."

I shouldn't have to "adapt" every time ANet bends to the whim of the whiners and nerfs whatever build I'm using. I MADE that nuker in response to the trends, that WAS adapting. If you're really in favor of this "adapt" concept, than all whiners should "adapt" by making a character class thats actually useful.

I didn't whine about nobody needing my tank in FoW. I made an echo nuker. I didn't whine about my echo nuker sucking in PvP. I made a ranger. If they made my ranger suck in PvP, I'd make a necro... and so on. I've adapted enough, I'm done adapting, especially when I know I could spend another 100 hours playing a class that will become useless without warning. The only people that aren't upset with this update are the ones that aren't affected, and therefore don't really have a valid opinion.

Phades · Nov 11, 2005, 07:45 AM // 07:45

I just cant wait till someone posts a fraps video link of a warrior with bulls charge/strike and a Mo/E smiter with some bouncy/cheesy music. I imagine all the monsters scattering like ants while pouring water into an ant hill, while being knocked down will be just pure comedy gold. Lol, if only fear me did that too, hmm i havent tried that yet.

Grammar · Nov 11, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

I'm also noticing that it's now much harder to aggro/group enemies with my warrior whenever some idiot in my group uses an AOE spell.

I find myself chasing after fleeing enemies, trying to aggro them back onto me before they kill their new and squishier targets.
It's really annoying because emenies seemingly almost always retarget the backline people after fleeing from an AOE spell.

So two things I've learned:
1. If you're an elementalist, please stop using AOE spells (unless perhaps the enemies are frozen or crippled).
2. If you're a warrior, bring plently of snare/knockdown skills in case an idiot elementalist in your group uses an AOE spell.

Seriously, am I the only one who's had to plead with elementalists to please, for the love of God please, stop casting AOE spells and screwing everything up for the team?

Oh yeah, another thing: even FIREBALL is affected by this. Enemies run before it's even cast for crying out loud.
I think I'm going to start kicking fire elementalists from my groups now, which sucks, because I pride myself on never excluding anyone from my groups, regardless of class or build. I usually don't even look at class; I like to think I can be successful with any group, even sans a monk. But fire elementalists simply do more harm than good now, it's ridiculous.
Anyone else agree with me on this?

ShinJin Kahn · Nov 11, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

lol, i did a fireball on a single lone badguy and he ran off.

ph33r t3h 403!!!!!!!!!!

(fear the AOE for those you who are uninformed)

They'll run fomr ANY AOE damage, from any class, chaos storm, frozen burst, ignite arrows, cyclone axe, B.aura, deathly swarm, any skill that hits more then 1 guy, prolly even hundred blades.

Magicmaster315 · Nov 11, 2005, 07:47 AM // 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jczech

My thoughts:

Elementalists are going to learn there's more than one element in the game. They'll either adapt and take some water magic to pin enemies in their AoE for longer (very unlikely) or learn air. In the same thought, henchmen and monsters are now smarter than 90% of the players (as they move out of AoE now...)

Running became easier, yes. Also though, monsters aren't going to chase the last surviving monk all the way back to town anymore.

For those that say ranger farm groups aren't going to survive, I believe it just means people will have to bring spike trap. Monsters rush in, get knocked down and crippled, then try to flee, but move too slowly to get out of the trap AoE. Traps might have to be placed closer together and monsters might have to be pulled to a certain spot instead of a certain area, but I believe it can still work.

More smiting spells will get the enemy off someone's back, rather than be used to do massive armour ignoring damage.

It'll be interesting to see how Sorrow's Furnace farming teams change now that one person can't hold all the monsters while two elementalists nuke from afar. Hell, it will be interesting to see how lots of farming builds change.

Overall, I'm pleased with the update. Can't wait to see how things have changed in many places.

So i leave wow to come back and check on my lovely guildwars to see if everything is right in the world as it should be. I get on and decide to run a solo farm run with my necro/ele like i used to. I go to nuke the 1st group of birds. I die. This isnt right, they are punishing those who play by the rules and dont cheat. How about oh i dunno better bot detection. I mean on Wow they catch the people and they are gone.Not to metion on there mobs dont run from aoe and they dont have a bad economy. These are the things i hoped would be fixed and they only made the game worse. I used to like playing Guildwars i used to even defend it aginst other games that where out there. I now see this game as a hopeless waste of alot of my time of alot of gold that i worked hard for and didnt ebay or cheat for. If they wanted to turn away alot of people this was a good way. Its completely retarted. my necro/ele that i worked on for so long and used so well is now a weak helpless pathetic pile of garbage that not only dose no one want in PVP but no one wants in PVE now too. Thank you Anet. You punished the innocent.

dargon · Nov 11, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Bah, people run from AoE's, why shouldn't the mobs, they are just computer controlled people, about time they started showing a little intelligence.